On Money, Family, and Passion: Eric Kohner Coaches Jamie Lee Using the Five Knowledge Centers
According to Ivy Business Journal, “Executives and HR managers know that coaching is the most potent tool for creating lasting personal change.”
I think coaching is something everyone should get to test drive and experience first hand to really understand the impact of it.
But if you can't hire a coach (or find a coach-in-training who will coach you for free) the second best thing might be for you to sit in on a coaching session.
That’s why earlier this week, I invited leadership coach Eric Kohner, who trained me to coach at the Coaches Training Institute to coach me on my own money beliefs using his leadership framework called the Five Knowledge Centers.
The Five Knowledge Centers reflect:
1. Head - reason
2. Heart - love
3. Gut - intuition and vision
4. Groin - passion and drive
5. Hands - action
Eric Kohner is an internationally recognized executive coach and keynote speaker. He founded EKCosystem, a global corporate training company dedicated to bringing HUMAN BEING into business, because “in today’s highly competitive world, the new hard skills are the heart skills.”
Learn more about Eric's work here: www.ekcosystem.com
Or reach him directly via email here: firstname.lastname@example.org
You can reach me directly via email too: email@example.com
Full Episode Transcript
Hello! Welcome to Episode 59 of Born to Thrive with Jamie Lee. I’m your coach and host, Jamie Lee.
How are you?
I say it every episode and that’s because I really believe it: I believe we’re all born to thrive. Not just survive but thrive. And as a leadership and negotiation coach, I believe that asking for what we want or negotiating or engaging in collaborative value-creating conversations is the conscious practice of leadership that will enable you to thrive and be fulfilled.
The leadership I’m talking about and that I coach people on is not about how many people you manage or what title you have but rather how you consciously choose to grow yourself so you can be of greater value and be of greater service to the world.
And that’s why I love coaching because that is the mission of coaching, to enable people to become of greater value and to become of greater service to the world. I love coaching and I love being coached by other coaches and this is a special episode where you will hear me get coached by a master leadership coach, Eric Kohner, who trained me to become a coach with the Coaches Institute a couple of years ago.
But you know what? I want to be really honest because before I started training as a coach, before I experienced coaching for myself first-hand, I didn’t really get what coaching was about. I thought coaching was a hoax or, worse yet, a privileged way for somebody who’s got money to get somebody to listen to them and to get a paid friend or a pretend therapist.
I didn’t get it.
Once I experienced coaching for myself, that’s when the scales fell from my eyes and Eric really helped me do that and he was the first person I met who called himself a leadership coach and I was like Oh! I can do that too!
He showed me a powerful example of what is possible.
And since then, my life has never been the same. Coaching has changed how I think, how I feel, and how I show up to my life and career. Coaching has changed my mindset and because I changed my mindset, my results changed and so my life changed.
Coaching has enabled me to live the life of my dreams, to negotiate, to lead, and to thrive.
But, you know, I don’t want you to take my word for it. I think coaching really is a gift that everyone should experience first-hand but if you can’t afford it or if you don’t know any coaches who are in training who might be able to coach you for free, the second-best thing is for you to sit in on a coaching call.
And that’s why, earlier this week, I invited leadership coach Eric Kohner to coach me.
And I asked him to coach me on my money beliefs and if you’ve been listening to my podcast, you know that my mission is to help ambitious people like you become bolder, braver, and better paid. And unless I work on my money beliefs so that they’re not limiting beliefs, how can I coach other people? How can I be of service to others?
And that’s the reason why I am very open, transparent, and vulnerable in this episode. You’ll hear about what I think and believe, some of my own limiting beliefs, how I feel about them, and you’ll find out how Eric uses his five knowledge centers, his own leadership framework, to help me rise above it, to overcome, and to shift my mindset around it.
So, Eric was on this podcast last year. You might want to check out Episode 32 where we did a really cool discussion about #MeToo and what it means to be a male ally in these times. Eric is also an internationally recognized executive coach and keynote speaker and coach trainer. He founded EKCOsystem, a global corporate training company dedicated to bringing HUMAN BEING into business because in quotes, “in today’s highly competitive world, the new hard skills are the heart skills.”
You can learn more about Eric’s work on www.ekcosystem.com or you can reach him directly via email at firstname.lastname@example.org. And if you have any feedback for me, feel free to email me directly: email@example.com
So I hope you enjoy this special episode where you get to experience me getting coached by Eric. Without further ado, here it is:
Jamie: I am down for some coaching. Yeah!
Eric: What do you want to get coached on?
Jamie: You know, one of the things that I coach people on is money because my goal is to help ambitious people become bolder, braver, and better paid. And that’s either through mindset shifting, going for their dreams, negotiating for more money and I would loved to be coached by you on my own money beliefs.
I’ll be more specific. I want to create abundance and wealth for myself and I also want to do it for my family but there’s like this little part of me that’s still kind of...I don’t know how to describe it, it’s like...you know, when I think about abundance and think about being able to make big donations like I feel like a lot of uplift but when I think about the obligation that I have to give back to my family, I feel like it’s like a speedbump. It’s like I feel a little resentful, you know?
For a bit of background, I am from an immigrant family and as a lot of immigrant families do, we give back to our parents because...yeah, I know it’s not only the immigrant families, but…
Eric: No, no. Just to reveal a little bit, my wife is from the Philippines so I was actually relating to you.
Jamie: Got it. Yeah.
Eric: That that is part of the culture in the Philippines, so that’s where I was coming from.
Jamie: Great. Yeah, I’m Korean but yeah, I think it’s very similar and my family, they tell me there is an expectation that I will share my wealth and I want to be able to come from real abundance and real generosity, you know what I mean? I don’t want to come from this place of obligation and guilt.
Eric: Right, got it.
Jamie: So that’s where I’m at.
Eric: First of all, to me, it’s inspiring that you’re getting so vulnerable in a webinar. I know personally and from studies that speaking about money is probably one of the most vulnerable topics to talk about. So I just want to acknowledge the courage that it’s taking for you to actually even talk about it in public.
Jamie: Thank you. My intention is to walk the talk I give and I think it’s important to talk about money. I think it’s really important to change what we think and believe and feel about money. Yeah.
Jamie: So it’s important to me.
Eric: So, I’m actually hearing, there’s already a few knowledge centers that you’re already tapping into. And, by the way, my dog just broke into the office so she’s very interested in this also, so I just want to include her. If she makes any noise, I apologize in advance. It seems like you’re getting a bit weighed down in your head about this.
Jamie: Oh yeah. Absolutely.
Eric: Tell me about what’s happening in your head, like the rational, reasonable part.
Jamie: Yeah, the rational, reasonable part is like, it starts calculating. It starts, you know, expenses and doing the P&L analysis. Like how much money am I gonna make? Am I gonna have enough? And can I afford this? How much are they gonna ask for?
Eric: Yeah, exactly and how is this gonna impact my relationship with them and all that kind of stuff.
Jamie: Yeah. What are they gonna say? How are they gonna judge me? My mom’s gonna say I’m being cheap.
Eric: Yeah, being stingy, got it. And so that, it almost feels like there’s a weight in your head about that.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. Let’s go down to your heart.
Eric: I actually kind of want to...well, go to your heart first before I say what I wanna do. Go to your heart. What is your heart telling you about the relationship of money and family?
Jamie: Wow. You know, I’m kind of surprised...I feel a bit of sadness, like…
Jamie: Yeah, there’s like a bit of...in my heart, in my chest I feel a bit of heaviness. Yeah.
Eric: So just be with that sadness for a second.
Eric: Just allow that sadness to be there. Because it’s giving you some information.
Eric: What’s there now?
Jamie: Uhh...wow. I feel emotional thinking about the sacrifice...the sacrifice that my parents made coming to America, working so hard. I thought about the sacrifice my grandmothers made, living through some really difficult times like the Korean War and poverty. And I think the sadness comes from feeling that struggle and the lack that they had to go through for me to experience so much abundance and so there’s sadness, there’s like a ton of emotion and a lot of gratitude.
Eric: Gratitude. Yeah, I can see that. I can see that and there’s something pure there. It’s not attached to any solutions or what are you gonna do but that in itself has a really powerful effect on you. Yeah. So are you ready to actually sink down into your gut for a second?
Eric: Unless you want to stay there because sometimes clients, you know, we hit on something and to get all five knowledge centers, I really want this to work for you.
Jamie: [laughs] When you said, “Let’s go to your gut,” the first thing that came to my head was “Oh, I’m hungry!”
Eric: Your gut tells you that too!
Jamie: My gut tells me I’m gonna have lunch after this webinar.
Eric: And the gut is kind of the place where intuition and vision also resides. Like what is your gut telling you about abundance and family?
Jamie: You know, my gut feels this like so strongly. I feel this..I feel so certain that it is possible that I can create abundance in my life, that I can give away abundance and...I feel really strongly in my gut that what I dream for my clients, for myself, for us to actually become bolder, braver and a heck of a lot better paid, I really do believe it’s possible and I feel it like very strongly in my gut.
Eric: And, only because you also brought up family, what is your gut telling you about abundance and giving back to your family?
Jamie: Wow. The words that just popped into my head surprised me. The words that popped into my head were “It’s not too late. It’s never too late.”
Eric: Never too late.
Eric: Never too late for what?
Jamie: It’s never too late to create abundance, to give abundance. I guess my head was thinking about oh, you know, they already struggled so much and yeah…
Eric: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jamie: And my gut said it’s not too late. It’s never too late.
Eric: Never too late to come from abundance.
Jamie: Yeah. It’s never too late.
Eric: Right. Fantastic. So I see this big smile on your face.
Jamie: Yeah. I’m really surprised by what came to the surface.
Eric: Mmm, cool. You know, it’s almost like the smile on your face, it’s almost like an ageless smile. Like you could be five or you could be sixty five and I don’t know what that means but that’s what’s coming up over here. Yeah.
Jamie: That’s really funny. My life partner sometimes makes fun of me and he tells me I’m sixty-five years old. [laughs]
Eric: [Laughing] Well, being sixty-six, it ain’t that bad, okay?
Eric: Yeah. So, let’s now...and I’m gonna actually ask you to stand up, okay?
Eric: Because we’re gonna be now going to the groin area and the thing that I like to get my clients really in touch with that part of their body is….because it really is about being grounded and in touch with what are you passionate about?
Jamie: What am I passionate about?
Eric: What are you passionate about? What is it that you wanna create? Yeah.
Jamie: I’m really passionate about...I’m really passionate about helping people understand their own minds.
Jamie: Yeah. And I’m really passionate about helping people see their own potential and that nothing is too good to be true. That with the power of their minds that they really can accomplish and create anything that they desire. And I’m really passionate about believing that for myself as well.
Eric: Cool. Cool. And what about...I’m taking a little bit of a risk here, okay?
Jamie: It’s okay! Eric, can I just give a technical note? We would love to see your face. Is it possible for you to lift up your camera angle so we can see you?
Eric: That’s as far as it goes, so I’ll sit down.
Eric: Okay. So, can you see me now?
Jamie: I can see you really well.
Eric: Okay, great. So, what...and I wanna get back to what you were saying. You were talking about having people see what’s possible, having people really step into their greatness, all of that. And how about your family?
Eric: What about seeing them from that perspective? What pops up when I ask that?
Jamie: Oh, wow. Wow. Hmmm. That’s a tricky one. Yeah.
Eric: Yeah, like I said. I knew that was a bit edgy, so…
Jamie: Yeah because my mind, my head immediately pops up and it says things like, oh, they don’t get what you’re doing, you know?
Eric: Right. Exactly.
Jamie: Why didn’t you become a lawyer? Why aren’t you climbing the corporate ladder?
Eric: Why aren’t you doing a nice corporate job? Right.
Jamie: Yeah. Why are you doing this coaching stuff? We don’t get it but as long as you make money, we get it, you know?
Eric: They don’t have to get it. This is not about them getting it. It’s about you getting it. About them. It’s about you seeing them from a place of possibility. So that’s kind of where I’m taking you. And I also notice that when I asked that question, you automatically went to your head.
Jamie: And all the reasons why they wouldn’t get it, they wouldn’t accept it, they wouldn’t approve of it.
Eric: Exactly. And they don’t have to! Because it’s not about them. This is about you.
Jamie: Yeah. So, wow. To see them from a place of possibility. You know, I went to...my mind went to my nephew and it’s really exciting to think that my nephew is going to have a life that is just so completely different from my parents’, from mine…
Eric: Right. So that’s what’s possible. Perhaps the next generation, then.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. And I’m gonna keep challenging you. I’m gonna challenge...so, your mother.
Eric: What is something that is so fantastic about her?
Jamie: What is so fantastic about her is her optimism, her drive, her work ethic, her love. Her love for her grandchild is just...it’s just so beautiful. I mean, she just has this overflowing love for my nephew and it makes me feel warm-hearted to see her be so happy holding this baby. She’s got this tremendous energy that I’ve always looked up to, you know? She’s a workhorse. And I also...what’s so fantastic about her is her belief in me, her belief in her own children, to do amazing thing that she hasn’t but for good reasons because she doesn’t speak English well and all that stuff but yeah, I think of her...I see her smiling, I see her as this incredible source of strength.
Eric: Yeah and if we had more time, we would go to your dad but [inaudible] the time also, but this is actually, what I’m seeing is, this is my intuition here, my gut is telling me the answer to everything here is around your passion.
Eric: But before we go to that, there’s one other knowledge center I want to explore just for the sake of everybody getting the model here and that’s the hands.
Eric: What are your hands telling you about this?
Jamie: What are my hands telling me about this?
Eric: Yeah. About abundance and family?
Jamie: What do my hands tell me about this?
Eric: And you can sit down if you want. I just wanted to, on the passion part have you stand up, yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. Huh. My hands tell me that...I don’t know if it’s my hands saying this or it’s my mind saying this but what I want to believe is that I can build it.
Eric: Yes. Well we talked about the hands are what make things. What is it you want to build?
Jamie: I wanna build a really successful coaching practice. I wanna build a company that employs people and transforms lives. I wanna build something that really helps women double their income and their impact. Funny you say that, asking about the hand because I was thinking how it’s so easy because all I have to do is type into a computer [laughing].
Eric: Yeah, the hands actually...you need your hands. At least still today, we need our hands to work with technology.
Eric: Yes, yeah. So, I’m gonna ask you now to go back to your head.
Eric: But with that, all the knowledge that you just explored.
Eric: And I’m noticing you’ve got this very warm smile on your face right now.
Eric: What are you taking away from this, now we’ve been coaching for about twenty minutes? What are you gonna take away from this exploration around abundance and family?
Jamie: I don’t need to worry so much.
Jamie: You know I also coach with the Life Coach School by Brooke Castillo and she says worry pretends to be necessary and so that’s what came to my mind, I’m like why am I worried, you know? I think I’m gonna answer my own question. I think I’m worried because I’m feeling impatient. I want it now, I want the millions of dollars to give away like Oprah, like now!
Eric: You wanna give everybody a car.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah. You get a Mercedes! And what’s coming to me now is how I think it was when we went to the gut, my gut says it’s never too late.
Eric: Yeah, it’s never too late. And that seems to be a really powerful...it’s almost like a mantra or something. I don’t know. What do you want to do with that? Because that actually seems to ground you.
Jamie: Mmm. Yeah, that’s really interesting because when I sit down and write down my self-limiting thoughts, the one that comes up over and over again is that I’m running behind.
Eric: Right, right.
Jamie: And so it’s kind of like my gut telling me, “You’re not behind!”
Eric: You’re not falling behind. You’re right on time.
Jamie: There’s no rush.
Eric: There’s time, there’s no rush. Exactly. Yeah.
Eric: So I wanna end this by just saying you are so up to this. You are so ready to step into this.
Jamie: Thank you! Thank you.
Eric: And my whole body is actually telling me that.