Interview with Kathlyn Hart: Desire More. Earn More. Give More.

My special guest Kathlyn Hart is creator of Be Brave Get Paid, a salary negotiation bootcamp for women. In addition, she hosts The Big Leap Show podcast where she interviews badass women about the journey from dreaming to doing. 

In this episode, she shares the biggest lesson she learned as an "aftermath of a terrible negotiation" in her freelance career and how the biggest hurdle to negotiation success is often our money beliefs. 

---

---

Episode Highlights:

Why do we hold ourselves back? 

Kathlyn shares what she learned from "an aftermath of a terrible negotiation." As a business owner she was once reluctant to raise her rates from $150/hour to $300/hour. When her business partner suggested they negotiate with their clients for a rate increase, she wasn't on board at first. She later realized it was her money beliefs holding her back from feeling confident that she could earn more. 

In the interview, she shares how doubling her consulting rate led to an "ah-ha" moment that eventually inspired her to start teaching women how to negotiate for what they want. 

Why it's all about reframing 

Why do women excel at negotiating on behalf of others, but not for themselves?

Kathlyn suggests reframing negotiation as simply a conversation, where two people with different agendas come together to try to make it work. 

Negotiation is simply:

1. Understanding what you want
2. Having a conversation to find out what the other side wants
3. Finding compromise or middle ground so you can work together with the other side

Leaders negotiate

Leading is not about commanding or controlling people without listening to their needs. Kathlyn says,

When we're being good human beings, we can become better negotiators, and better leaders, along the way. 

Negotiation Advice for Women Who Want to Close Their Wage Gaps

1. Get clear on your money beliefs. 

Do you believe that you have "enough money to get by" or that money won't make you happy? Kathlyn shares how this belief once held her back from desiring more and asking for more.

Truth is money itself won't make you happy. But when you don't have money, you may experience stress, anxiety, fear, and anger because of the money you don't have. When you do have money, you can experience freedom, happiness, growth, and contribution. Money can free you to make a bigger contribution towards the causes, nonprofits, or projects that you stand for. 

2. Desire more.

You can desire more from a place of abundance. You can feel grateful for what you have and desire more at the same time. It's not gross or nasty or greedy or bad to desire more. 

When you desire more, you'll be motivated to negotiate and ask for what you want. When you ask for what you want, you're 100% more likely to get what you want than when you don't ask. 

3. Embrace your ambition. 

Regardless of your culture or background, ultimately there's no shame in having ambition.

So embrace your ambition. Get clear on what your ambition is, and take action on your desires by asking for what you want. 

4. Don't negotiate against yourself before you negotiate. 

Sometimes we negotiate against ourselves by letting fear talk us out of applying for hot jobs, or stretch assignments that pay better. Kathlyn says, 

What's the harm in reaching for the better paying job? The only risk is a bruised ego. 

Remember that 80% of success is psychology. 20% is tactics. 

Be Brave Get Paid 

To learn more about Kathlyn's bootcamp, go to bebravegetpaid.com

To learn more about working with Kathlyn one-on-one, go to kathlynhart.com

Dismantling the myth “I have to be miserable to grow”

Is it true that misery fuels success?

Where does the myth come from and how does it impact the lives of people we love?

Why do we compare our success to other people’s shiny outsides?

What does Joy and Meaning have anything to do with negotiation success?

Find out and hear my personal story in this episode.

---

---

Full Episode Transcript: 

Hello! Welcome to the fifteenth episode of Born to Thrive with Jamie Lee. I am your host, Jamie Lee. I work as a leadership and negotiation coach. I believe that we are all born to thrive. And I also believe that negotiation skills are leadership skills.

I have a coach. I’m a coach who has a coach. My coach challenged me to do a podcast on a myth that I clung to for about 36 years, and that myth is that I have to be miserable to grow. Or that misery is the ingredient to success.

I looked up the word misery, and basically, it’s distress or tension. Stress in the mind and body.

I like that definition because when I’m miserable I have mental pain. I want to clarify, it’s a dirty kind of mental pain. Not the clean kind. The clean kind is when you actually do hurt, and you physically are hurt or there’s a really good reason for you to be in pain. Like something tragic happened. Somebody you know and love died. That’s clean pain, to be sad, to experience mental pain.

But misery, I think, is dirty pain, is the kind of pain you generate in your mind by telling stories about who you are and what it means to you in a negative way. This creates dissonance in the body. Dissonance as opposed to resonance.

Resonance, you feel calm, peace, connected, engaged. Dissonance, you feel disjointed. You feel disconnected, and you feel it in the pit of your stomach. Well, I do. You might feel it elsewhere. I also feel it in a tightness inside my throat or stiffness in my neck. It’s a physical sensation. It’s a very subtle thing, but you feel it from the inside out.

So that’s my definition of misery: it’s dirty mental pain and physical pain that is linked to mental pain. Dissonance.

I think it’s a myth that you have to be miserable to grow and succeed or that misery is a key ingredient to being successful, to thriving. You don’t need to be miserable to thrive is what I’ve come to realize.

The belief that I have to be miserable to grow has been drilled into my head from a very young age. I was born in South Korea and, to give you an example of how this belief manifests in South Korea, they have this incredible life or death intensity when it comes to education, because you have to get educated and pass these really, really rigorous entrance exams to get into a good college and then to get into an elite company. Otherwise, it’s like, “Oh, do you really matter?”

They have that mentality. I don’t, luckily.

To give you an example of how intense that is, they send these very young children from when they are in elementary school to go to school, be diligent, pay attention and then after school go to cram schools. Multiple cram schools each night to learn foreign languages, to become a virtuoso pianist or a violinist, to become these young geniuses so that they can succeed in the world.

So, basically, the mentality is that you have to be number one at all costs. And that cost is pretty expensive because they have one of the highest death rates by suicide. Even very young people. It makes me feel sad when I consider that.

I, luckily, did not have to go to multiple cram schools after school, but I did come from that culture, and my parents did work incredibly hard.

Let me tell you about my father.

I’ve talked about my mother many, many times, so it’s time to talk about my dad.

When I was in the sixth grade, I was assigned this interview project where you interview your family and you ask them questions and you produce this report. So, I asked my father to describe himself, and he said that he is a jolly man.

Well, he used the Korean word and then I translated it, and the translated word was “jolly.”

I couldn’t believe it. It created a lot of dissonance because it didn’t make sense that my father was jolly. Because for me, when I was growing up, I just saw him go to work. Every day.

My parents ran a gift shop for several years in Queens before they split up, and they worked 12-hour days, including commute, for 364 days out of the year, and they did that for about six years when I was growing up. They were always going to work, or at work, or grumpy, so for me to hear from my father that he thinks of himself as jolly, I was like…

What?! That doesn’t sound right.

Because to me, I saw from his actions that he believed in the myth that he has to be miserable and work himself to illness, which he did. He worked until both of his kidneys failed.

He really did that, so he showed me that this myth is not true.

And I’m grateful for that lesson, I really am.

Another time I experienced this myth and lived it was just a few years ago. The last full-time job I had was at a promising tech startup here in New York City, and I worked for one of these wunderkind startup guys. He would be like the entrepreneur guy’s guy.

This person had an ivy league degree. He used to be a football player, so he was tall, broad-shouldered, barrel-chested, blonde, blue-eyed. He used to be an investment banker, so he knew all of the Excel spreadsheets, and would put together all these really intricate models that worked and impressed venture capitalists. So, he was the entrepreneur, tech startup, male wunderkind, and he used to be an investment banker and then he became a tech startup executive at like, age 26.

I found myself comparing myself to this person, to my boss, and feeling not so great about it because I realized,

“Oh my God, I have to be better than that.

I have to be him, and then I have to be better at being him in order for me to get ahead.”

That wasn’t gonna fly for me.

So, when you compare yourself to other people’s outsides, or when you think that the definition of success is achieving somebody else’s measure of success, that’s when you feel that dirty pain inside.

And I certainly felt it. I felt dissonance. It was stressful. I felt like I didn’t belong. I didn’t feel motivated. I felt discouraged. I felt sorry for myself. I felt like I didn’t have a way to excel, to succeed, to thrive.

Because I was feeling this way, having these self-limiting thoughts, I didn’t take a lot of inspired action. Which means, I wasn’t really showing up as a leader. And because I wasn’t showing up, because I wasn’t taking action, there were no really impressive results. I wasn’t generating the kind of results that I know that I am capable of, that I am uniquely capable of.

Why? Because I was comparing myself to some other dude. Some dude who’s so different from me.

But, how often do we do that? All the time! I still sometimes do it.

So, the myth is I have to be miserable to grow, and from doing a lot of self-work - I study the work of Byron Katie, I study the self-coaching model by Brooke Castillo - what I’ve learned is that I have control over my thoughts.

And that these thoughts generate feelings.

And then the feelings generate action.

And then these actions generate results.

So, again, it’s thoughts, feelings, action, results.

And often the stressful thoughts that you have, these myths that you have, you just flip them around. You just do a turnaround as Byron Katie calls them, and sometimes that can be truer than the myth that you are believing and the myth that is causing misery.

To give you an example, the myth is I have to miserable to grow, and what I have found to be truer is that I have to experience joy to grow. That my joy propels my growth. And that, in fact, my misery prevents me from growing.

I’m going to talk about positive psychology for a quick minute and see how that connects to negotiation and leadership because that’s what I teach. In the field of positive psychology, they talk about the PERMA model, and PERMA stands for:

Positive Emotion

Engagement

Relationship

Meaning

Achievement

I find that really fascinating because I can see how each element of this PERMA model can help you negotiate and lead with success.

With joy, the Positive Emotion:

Are you optimistic about the future?

Can you generate positive emotion in the negotiation conversation?

Can you strike an optimistic tone when you talk about your value and what you have to offer the other side?

That is a surefire way to negotiate confidently, with power, and make people happy, too. It’s not all about making people happy, but if you can generate that positive emotion and really convey it effectively, I think that will give you power.

Engagement: In the PERMA model, engagement is really about flow.

Are you in the flow?

In other words, are you present?

Are you engaged in the conversation, and are you present with your counterpart?

And if you are, you’re listening.

And if you’re listening, you’re getting through.

And if you’re getting through, you get to agreement.

So, I think engagement is also a key ingredient of negotiation success.

The third element is Relationship, and of course, relationships are paramount in negotiation as well as leadership. You want to create positive relationships. You want to create an alliance with the people you are engaged with. Especially in a negotiation.

You have a relationship with the people you are negotiating with. Do you want it to be one where you feel like you are connected and your interests are aligned or do you want to feel, do you want them to feel that you are adversaries? That all you care about is getting your piece of the pie. That’s up to you.

Meaning: What is your purpose?

I read that another definition of purpose is long-lasting happiness.

If you are clear on your values, on your purpose, what is really important to you, what is the bigger why that motivates you to engage in this conversation - if you are clear on that, if you are engaged with purpose, you will find meaning in the conversation. And when you find meaning in the conversation, instead of feeling distress and anxiety, maybe you will feel rejuvenated.

Maybe you will feel energized. For having a negotiation conversation. Can you imagine that?

Achievement: Achievement is about having goals. It’s about being ambitious, and I love that.

I think the more ambitious you are, the more you stretch yourself, and the more you try to make accomplishments happen in your life, the more you will muster the courage to have brave conversations. And the more achievements you have, the more confident you will feel, so it’s like a benevolent or positive cycle.

So, again I have to say that it’s not true that you have to be miserable to grow so that you can succeed. You also don’t have to be miserable to negotiate with success. I love that I’ve been able to make this connection, and that I hope you will also make that connection for yourself, and that you thrive on your own terms. Thank you!

Why Do We Suck at Advocating Our Value for Money?

But first a reality check: Is it true that women don't like to negotiate for ourselves?

And why do we still choose to believe that we suck at negotiating for money?

I look at my own career for answers and explanations. 

---

---

But first a reality check: Is it true that women don't like to negotiate for ourselves?

Last week, I gave a keynote on the topic of negotiation for Women in Auto at the NY Auto Show.

Before I went on stage, organizer asked the audience, “How many of you enjoy negotiating?”

To her surprise, half the room raise their hands.

Some women do enjoy negotiating. In October 2017, Wall Street Journal reported that more women are asking for raises than before. Lean In published a similar report.

With Equal Pay Day around the block and the gender wage gap pressing on our minds, it may not seem that the tide is rising fast enough for women, but I believe the tide is changing. Slowly but surely.

Why do we still choose to believe that we suck at negotiating?

I don’t have to look too far for an answer.

When I look back on my own career, I see that I did once dread negotiating my salary.

Mostly because I had no idea...

• What it is (a conversation that leads to an agreement), 
• How to do it (like a human being engaging with another human being through language) and 
• Why I had to do it (because my career is mine to grow and develop, and getting paid my worth feels incredibly good, and when I feel good I do even better work) 

From my personal experience having bungled salary negotiation in epic style, I see that I was once under the spell of Tiara Syndrome.

Have you heard of the Tiara Syndrome?

It’s when you believe that if you just keep your head down and do really good work, some authority figure will come and place a tiara on your head.

You know, like in a fairy tale.

In this fairy tale, it would be unbecoming, or unladylike, to speak up, “ruffle feathers”, or “make waves.” Fairy tale princess (or prince) would never stoop so low to advocate for the value of her contributions.

I’ve certainly fallen under the spell of this Tiara Syndrome.

Early in my career, I once worked as a buyer for a fast growing beauty company. I came up with a plan that had the potential to save the company $100K.

I got to present this plan to the big shots in a boardroom. Everyone in the senior management team was there. After that I was on a high.

I thought, “This is it! This is how I’m going to be promoted and get a big raise. Things are made for me.”

So, I didn’t ask.

Because I thought someone was going to place a tiara on my head. Yes, I was that naive.

Can you guess what actually happened?

No promotion. No raise. Just a pat on the back. “Good job. Keep it up.”

Hey, but I get it. I relate to my clients who seek my help with this stuff. It IS uncomfortable to advocate for our value...especially for more money.

After all, we’re socialized to think that recognition for our value is supposed to come from OUTSIDE of us.

The tiara, the validation, the praise, and the money -- we think it's supposed to come from external forces, or figures to whom we assign power and authority.

Here’s the thing, though:

Owning our value, creating value, and advocating for our value -- it starts from WITHIN us.

It starts with YOU being kind to you.

It starts with YOU investing in your growth.

It starts with YOU honoring what feels good from the inside.

It starts with YOU dreaming of what is possible from that feel-good place.

It starts with YOU creating solutions in your mind that helps other people, and THAT, my friends, is the definition of value that results in money.

Value that generates money is in creating solutions that benefits others.

So how do we get the gumption and the guts to negotiate for money?

Tactically, don't give a range if you want to get something in the middle. The bottom number in your range will become your starting number.

Not because employers are evil, but because it's in there interest to retain the best talent for as little money as possible.

Find your target number, go a step or two higher and anchor there. If you'd be happy with $100K, then ask for $120K. If you want $150K, then ask for $175K.

After all, you'll only be negotiated down from there.

But most importantly, focus first on value, not money.

If you create value for other people, money will follow.

I once heard that it was extremely hard to keep Mother Teresa and Ghandi poor because they generated tremendous value for other people even though they committed their lives to live in poverty.

So to become a powerful negotiator, create value. Create solutions that help others and own your value.

Don't apologize for being awesome. State your unique value. 

Know your target, anchor high, and make your ambitious ask for more money. 

Because if you're creating value in the world, money will follow, like a magnet. 

Interview with Minda Harts: Advancing the Next Generation of Women of Color

My special guest Minda Harts is a social impact entrepreneur and founder of My Weekly Memo, a digital career education platform. Her mission is to advance the next generation of women of color. 

In this quick interview, she drops negotiation and leadership wisdom and shares how she successfully negotiated a $30K salary increase. 

---

---

Here are some highlights: 

Know Your BATNA

BATNA stands for Best Alternative to Negotiated Agreement. It refers to the next best option that's available to you, should the negotiation you're in fail to reach an agreement. 

In the interview, Minda shares how having a strong BATNA helped her make a career decision that led to $30K increase in salary and bigger title. 

Advocate for Yourself, Lead Others

Negotiating and leading go hand in hand. Whether you're negotiating your salary or negotiating a contract, developing your negotiation skills is a lifelong process, and these skills are part of your leadership skills. 

Advocating for yourself - whether for money, places or things - that's leadership.

If you lead, you also have to advocate for others on your team. But first you'll have to learn how to advocate for yourself, so you can do it for others that you lead.

Negotiation Advice for Women of Color 

The gender wage gap is more severe for Latinas and black women. As a leader who advocates for women of color, Minda says that the best advice is to start asking. 

No one's going to tap you on the shoulder and say, "Hey girl, I heard there's a wage gap. Let me give you some more money to fill it." 

If you don't ask, then it's always a no, and the wage gap will only widen. Minda says she advises other women of color, "Even if you shake through that ask, make the ask." 

Don't Wait Until the Annual Review

There's no need to wait until the annual review to advocate for the value you bring or to make the ask. 

There is no magical time to advocate for your value. 

In fact, Minda says, you make your ask whenever and set it up for success by consistently highlighting the value you bring throughout the year. 

Check out the Weekly Memo here. 

Three Surprising Negotiation Insights From Women in Auto

What are the negotiation secrets of women leaders in the automobile industry?

I share inspiring insights from the Women in Automobile Networking Breakfast at the New York Auto Show and talk about how you can apply these insights to gain the upper hand in your career negotiations.

Click here to download the free script: How to Ask for a Big Pay Raise. 

---

---

Full Episode Transcript*:

(*This transcript has been edited for accuracy) 

Hello! Welcome to the twelfth episode of Born to Thrive with Jamie Lee. I am your host, Jamie Lee. I work as a negotiation and leadership coach for women on the rise. 

Yesterday, I got to give a keynote at Women in Auto. This was a networking breakfast held at the Javits Center where the New York Auto Show is happening right now. I got to meet and hear from some really amazing, impressive women leaders in the auto industry, and to provide some context as to how impressive that really is, I’ll share some information with you.

In America, women influence 85% of car buying decisions, and that’s equivalent to $550 billion in car revenues. That’s a lot of money that women influence, and yet only 26% of the jobs in the auto industry are held by women. So, the women leaders, executives in the auto industry, they truly are pioneers in a male-dominated industry. 

Something really interesting that I observed yesterday was that right before I got on the stage, the organizer asked the audience a question. She said, “How many of you enjoy negotiating?” And half of the room raised their hands. That’s admirable and also unusual.

Maybe it’s my stereotype, but a lot of women do say that they don’t like to negotiate, that they don’t enjoy it, but half of the room yesterday at Women in Auto said they do. I think this is indicative of their attitude toward negotiating.

So, women who say they do like negotiating, they are more likely to see it as a fun challenge that will help them grow their skills and help them gain value and engage, connect, collaborate.

Whereas women who say that they don’t like to negotiate, they see negotiation as a “rough” conversation. That it’s a game rigged against them, that they’re going to lose something. That they have to compromise, and they feel sort of let’s say, like they’re already at a disadvantage before they go into the conversation, because they see themselves not as somebody who’s going to learn and grow from the conversation, but somebody who has to give something up.

So, how do you see yourself? Do you enjoy negotiation or do you dread it? And if you dread it, maybe you can start thinking of it in different ways, so that you wouldn’t dread it as much.

So, let me share with you some of the really inspiring insights that I gained from listening to the leading women in auto. There were two speakers in particular who really touched me, who really moved me. 

The first speaker, her name is Suzanne, and she is the GM, she is the General Manager at Helms Brothers Auto, which is one of the biggest Mercedes resellers in New York, and she said she started as a receptionist more than thirty years ago in the auto industry and she worked herself up to become the General Manager.

She emphasized two points. One is the importance of improving yourself every day. She said that she improves herself every day so that she can have a positive influence on others, and I thought that was really inspiring.

The second was the importance of being consistent. Being consistent even when there are so many changes in the industry, and every day there are unknowns and curveballs thrown her way, but every day she is consistent in her effort to add value. I thought that was really inspiring, too.

She was asked, “So, how do you negotiate? What is the secret to your negotiation success?” and that really got my ear and I jotted this down.

She shared three tidbits which I thought were all amazing.

The first is that knowledge is power. The more you know, the more confident you will be. I think that makes total sense because 80% of your negotiation success is your research, is how well you have prepared and what you know going into the conversation.

The second secret to her negotiation success was that she knows her value and she knows how to articulate it. If you’re curious about how to do that, again, you can check out the previous podcast episodes number 8 and number 9, as well as number 10, all around how to articulate your value and how to speak your value without fear and anxiety.

Number three, the third secret to her success, was that you get back what you give. I thought that was really powerful, and that also reminded me of another inspiring quote by motivational speaker Zig Ziglar, who said,

You can get everything you want in life if you help enough other people get what they want.

And I think that is a really great definition of adding value. How do you gain value? You gain value when you have contributed value to others. 

And, finally, there was a speaker, her name was Kathy Gilbert, and she is the Director of Sales and Business Development for this major organization called CDK Global, and she talked about how to define success for yourself, and the importance of integrity, diversity and culture.

She is a black woman, and she rose through the ranks as well to become Director of Sales and Business Development for this major organization that works with the automotive industry, including women dealers, manufacturers, vendor partners, and affiliate organizations. She was very authentic in her speech, and in the middle of the speech she said, “Here’s how I know I am a success. It’s because I am here. I am here with you on a Thursday morning at the Javits Center, celebrating my birthday. I’m speaking at the New York Auto Show, telling my story to women in the automotive industry, and that’s how I know that I am successful. Because I am here.”

I thought that was really powerful, and so did everyone else. We all applauded, because we realized: Oh, yeah! We’re here. We’re right here and we are successful with you, Kathy.

And what she showed us by her example was that you get to define success for yourself, and it’s so powerful to see people do it, because it gives us permission to do it for ourselves. And what that clued me into is that, like success, which we can define for ourselves, we can also define what is valuable or what is value.

Now when you hear me say that, you might be thinking, “No, Jamie, you don’t understand. It’s just about the money!” Yes, money is definitely a yardstick of success that a lot of people agree on.

If you contribute value, money will come your way. However, money is not necessarily success.

Money is not the definition of success, nor is it the definition of value.

So, what is value? We talk about value all the time in negotiation. How do you create value? How do you articulate value? Collaborate to gain value? I’ve been listening to The Life Coach School Podcast by Brooke Castillo and recently she did an episode about money, and it came to a really surprising conclusion that illuminated what value is and where it comes from.

Basically, she says, value is created in the mind. I’ll say it again. Value is created in the mind. That makes a lot of sense to me, because you can have the same object, let’s say a beautiful dress, and the same dress can be of different value to one person and completely no value to another. It’s how we define value in our minds, and even money.

I’m traveling to Asia in the spring, and the currency, the value of a dollar has changed over time because people have decided that a dollar is now less valuable than a Japanese yen. And again, that’s because we made that decision in our minds. Value is created in the mind. 

So, I’ll wrap this up with a helpful tip. How can you apply all of this so that you can negotiate successfully in your life? I think two things.

First, really get clear on what you value. What is important to you? What is worth the effort, what is worth the aggravation of engaging in a negotiation for you? How do you define value?

And also, how will you define success for yourself? In other words, what do you want and why is it important to you?

Secondly, find out what your negotiation counterpart values. This will help you gain the upper hand. If you understand what they value, what this money or this contract or this deal or getting a yes, what it means to them and why it is valuable to them, you will be able to get through, you will be able to influence, and you will be able to get that yes.

So, I wish you great success in your negotiation and I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.
 

Ding! 5 Minute Exercise for Negotiation Anxiety

Does the thought of negotiating for yourself make your hands go clammy, your throat dry and your heart beating fast?

I share the good news about negotiation anxiety, the tough news (not bad, just tough) and a five minute exercise for overcoming anxiety so you can take confident action towards your goals.

---

---

Full Episode Transcript:

Hello! Welcome to the eleventh episode of Born to Thrive with Jamie Lee. I am your host, Jamie Lee. We’ve been talking about the key practices for negotiation success on this podcast, and I shared my free script on how to ask for a big pay raise.

I got unexpected feedback that some people thought it doesn’t apply to them. That this wouldn’t work for them because they haven’t contributed as much value as Karina did in the example that I give in this book. That clued me into the fact that I’ve overlooked one of the most important negotiations that we ever have. It’s the one we have with ourselves. 

What am I talking about? I’m talking about negotiation anxiety. I’m talking about that clammy feeling in your hands, when your mouth goes dry and your heart starts beating really fast before you negotiate, and for some, it’s so bad they just don’t negotiate.

They let that anxiety hold them back from initiating a conversation, engaging and asking for what they want. How do we overcome this? I have for you, the good news, the tough news - it’s not bad news, it’s just tough news that we can process - and then a quick, five-minute exercise for overcoming negotiation anxiety so that you can articulate your value, advocate for your value, ask and get what you want.

So, what’s the good news? The good news about negotiation anxiety is that really, when you boil it down to the essentials, it’s basically just a thought. A stressful thought that causes a vibration in your body.

That’s the good news, because number two: it’s true that you’re not your thoughts. You can have the thoughts. What you feel, what you experience when you have that thought, it’s not really you, it’s just the thought.

And then finally, the third good news is that you can have new thoughts. You can generate new thoughts. This is basically not unlike reframing, when you create new perspectives, new ideas in a negotiation. Just like that, you can have new thoughts in your head.

So, what’s the tough news?

Three key news. The first is that no one teaches us how to do this, really. I’ve read many, many negotiation books, but no one talks about how to overcome your negotiation anxiety so that you can show up with real confidence. They just tell you, don’t be emotional. It doesn’t really help, because emotions drive our actions and our decision-making process.

And number two: the tough news is that without overcoming negotiation anxiety, we’ll never actually feel good, even when we get what we want. In other words, without overcoming negotiation anxiety, we never feel successful, so that’s kind of tough.

The third news is that generating new thoughts and feeling successful, it takes practice.

So, what do we do? What are the four key steps? Think about a stressful conversation or a negotiation that’s causing you anxiety. I want you to hear a bell go off in your head when you feel that dread and anxiety. The clammy hands, the heart palpitating, your shoulders stiffening up, and you feel that negative emotion and the vibration in your body. Feel a DING go off. What is DING? It’s basically an acronym, D-I-N-G.

D - Deep breath. Relax. Try to relax. And you can do it by taking a deep breath in and a full breath out. I learned that when you are feeling anxious, you actually don’t exhale fully. You’re trying to take a breath in, you’re feeling anxious, and you’re going like this (hyperventilating), but you don’t ahhhhhh, exhale fully. So, breathe in for four, exhale for six. Something I learned in elementary school that still works. Take a deep breath. (I do this as part of my morning meditation every day)

I - Identify your feeling. What is that vibration? Where is it in your body? Do you feel it in your neck? In your shoulder? In your solar plexus? In your hands? Just feel it. Identify it. Be with it. Observe it. Own it, so that you can release it. And now, the N.

N - Name that thought. What is that sentence in your head that’s causing the vibration? Ask yourself: what am I thinking? What is the stressful thought? And for many people it’s a variation on: I’m not good enough. I haven’t done enough. I’m a hack. I’m not good enough. There’s something wrong with me.  Okay, so once you have identified your emotions and have named that thought or that sentence, it’s the G.

G - Go change the thought. Now, if you’re thinking oh, she’s gonna be like oh, just turn it around, make it all positive, happy-go-lucky, you’re thriving! No. Actually, no. Don’t turn it around to the positive just yet. And that’s because we want to train our brain to think in a new way, and when we try to give it new, positive thoughts, it just does this reverse thing.

It’s just like: Ugh, it’s too positive, I can’t believe it. In fact, it’s so positive that it turns me off, and I’m just gonna go more negative because I feel I can’t believe it.

So we want to train our brains to have new thoughts by training it to think in increments or baby steps. And so, from having that thought I’m not good enough, go to a neutral place.

A positive change to that thought I’m not good enough might be something like, I’m amazing! I’m thriving! I’m so happy! But when you try to believe that thought, you just feel kind of more turned down, not turned up, so go neutral.

What’s in between the thought I’m not good enough and I am amazing? Completely neutral might be something like: I exist. I do the work that I have.

So from there, go find evidence to support that neutral thought. I do the work that I have. Did you have a task item on your list that you crossed off today? Do you carry the function that you’re assigned to do? What is the evidence that you do the work that you have? What is the evidence that you simply exist? And now that you have a neutral thought, and you have evidence to support this new thought, can you believe it? And how does it feel? 

It might sound a little self-help-y. It might sound something like: Wait, why aren’t you giving me negotiation tips and tricks and strategies? I just want to make the money, I just want to go close my wage gap.

But the thing is, in order for us to close our wage gaps, in order for us to show up as leaders, the kind of leaders that we want to be in the world, we have to have confidence, right? And confidence comes from taking action, but we feel so much anxiety that we’re frozen and can’t take action, we don’t get confident. And where does action come from? Confident action comes from a feeling that you have. The conviction in your body. And the feeling comes from a thought that you have in your head, the belief inside of you that you are worth it. That there is something to take action for. That there is something worth taking a risk for. 

So, I really want to encourage you to take time to feel the anxiety that you feel when you have a negotiation coming up, when you have a difficult conversation coming up. The good news is that you can turn it around, and you can start with neutral thoughts. When you have neutral thoughts you are feeling something different and taking a different action.

So, I hope that this podcast was helpful for you. I hope that I have helped you see negotiation anxiety in a different light, and that you take action on the things that you want, you take action on becoming the leader that you want to be.

Thank you, and talk to you soon!
 

Five Minute Exercise for Speaking Your Value

I share a quick and fun exercise for crafting your unique value statement so you can negotiate with power and poise. I also offer my free script “How To Ask For A Big Pay Raise”.

Click here to download the free script.

---

---

Full Podcast Transcript: 

Hello! Welcome to the tenth episode of Born to Thrive with Jamie Lee. I am your host, Jamie Lee. I work as a coach, speaker, trainer and I believe that we are all born to thrive. And I want to help you thrive. I want to help you close your wage gap.

If you write me an email at jamie@jamieleecoach.com, I will send you my script on how to ask for a big pay raise. This script is based on a real life scenario. I will call my client Karina for the purpose of this podcast. And Karina, she used this script, a version of this script, to ask and get a 44% increase in her salary with stock options. So this script worked for her, and if you are somebody who contributes undeniable value at work but is underpaid for the value you bring, I think this script can help you. So please write me at jamie@jamieleecoach.com (or click here to download the script).

Lately, I’ve been working on my own website. I was working with She Negotiates for the past year and a half, and I have decided to strike out on my own as a leadership and negotiation coach for ambitious women.

So, today I’ve been working on crafting my own unique value statements. If you listened to the previous episode, you would know that articulating your unique value is the first key practice for negotiation success.

What is your unique value?

Today I had to ask that to myself many times over, and I just come back to this over and over again: that I am here to help other people maximize their potential so that they can thrive. So that other people can thrive.

I really believe in serving others. I believe in making a contribution. I believe in doing work that has meaning, that is bigger than myself, and I’m really excited to do the work that I do, and I hope that you are excited, too. If you want to work on your unique value proposition statement, I have a really quick and fun exercise that I shared with Smith College alums on Monday night that I’d love to share with you.

So, here’s the exercise: Grab a piece of paper and pen. I’ll wait. If you have a piece of paper or if you are on your smartphone, if you can open your Notes app while you’re listening to this, do it. You’re going to make some very simple lists, and then at the end of it, you’re going to distill what you learn from this exercise into a succinct and cogent statement of your unique value. 

So, here’s the first list: What are you most proud of? What are you most proud of accomplishing in the past year, past month, past quarter? Don’t think too hard about this, just whatever comes up, write it down. Write as many as you can fit. And try to be specific, and if you have facts and figures, all the better. 

Then the second list is: What do you stand for? What are your values? And if you do have a specific negotiation conversation, and for the purpose of clarity, negotiation is simply a conversation where you’re trying to reach an agreement. So if you’re trying to get somebody to agree with you, and if you know them, what do they stand for? And what do they stand against? And what do you stand against? If you stand for something, then you’re definitely against some other things, right? So, just write those things, and compare your list against the things that you know the other side, your negotiation counterpart, also stands for or also stands against. In other words, find where you share values. So, that’s a list. 

And then the third list is where you can go really crazy. Crazy imaginative. What are you capable of? What is your future potential?

In the last episode, we talked briefly about how us women, we don’t always get rewarded for our future potential as much as men do.

This is something that Dr. Johanna Barsh found out in her gender research, and something that Sheryl Sandberg also talked about in her book, Lean In.

What is your future potential? What are you capable of? What’s possible? Be as imaginative as you can be. Don’t hold yourself back by the voice of the Itty Bitty Shouldy Committee that tells you, “Who do you think you are?!” If you can quiet that voice down, and just let yourself imagine all the things that you can do, what’s possible?

Okay, so now you have three lists.

The first is things that you are proud of having accomplished.

Second is the list of your values, and if you have a negotiation counterpart, and you do know them, and if you do know what they stand for or what they stand against, then you also know where you share values with the other side. So this is really important and useful.

Third, you have a list of your potential, your future potential. What can you do? What kind of leader can you be?

And finally, now that you have drawn this exhaustive list, I want you to distill the common themes, the key themes, the things that just keep popping up over and over again in terms of your proud accomplishments, your values, and what you are capable of and want to achieve. 

You’re going to distill this into one specific statement that goes like this: I _______________ , and this blank is an active verb, so that _____________________. 

I drive partnerships so that we can exceed our goals.
I connect the dots for our donors so that they can see the tremendous value that we deliver to our constituents.
I teach negotiation skills so that women can lead, influence and thrive. 

So those were three specific examples. I’d love to know what you come up with when you do this exercise. This was really fun to do in person earlier this week, when I led a negotiation workshop in Philadelphia. When people did this exercise and they got to share it with each other, there was this great sense of empowerment. They were like, “Yeah! This is what I’m capable of, and this is my unique value!”

And then, the second part to this is dovetailing it with your reasonably ambitious ask. So the unique value statement, if it is cogent, if it is to the point, if it is relevant to the listener, then what you accomplish by speaking your unique value statement is framing for mutual benefit. And then you can dovetail it with your ask by saying, “And that’s why I believe I deserve the high end of the going market rates, and that is $150,000.” Or whatever you want to ask for.

So to wrap this up, I hope that this quick and fun exercise helps you clarify your unique value, and helps you negotiate with confidence and power so that you can thrive. Thank you!
 

Articulating Your Value for a Big Pay Raise

How do you articulate your value at the #negotiation table, so that you can ask for a big pay 💰 raise?

How do you craft a compelling unique value proposition statement that captures your accomplishments, values, and potential? 

Here's the link to download the script I mention in this episode. 

---

---

Full Episode Transcript:

Hello! Welcome to the ninth episode of Born to Thrive with Jamie Lee. I am your host, Jamie Lee. Tonight, I have the awesome privilege of hosting a negotiation workshop for Smith Alums in Philadelphia, and in about twenty minutes, I have to go catch the train to Philadelphia, so this is going to be a quick but powerful one. I believe that negotiation skills are leadership skills, and that we are all born to lead, influence and thrive. 

We’re talking about the five key practices for negotiation success, the first of which is articulating your value. How do you articulate your unique value so that it is compelling to your negotiation partner? I think it’s really important to think about it in three concrete ways.

• The first: What is the worth of your contributions, your strengths, your skills?
• Number two: What do you stand for?
• Number three: What is your potential?

A really compelling, unique value proposition captures all three of these. The worth of your contributions, what you stand for, and your future potential.

Number one: What is the worth of your contributions? 

Take for example, my recent client. I’m going to call her Karina for this example. She works in digital marketing, and she has contributed undeniable value to her employer. It’s undeniable because she exceeded the revenue goals for her department, and the revenue goals were $10 million and she brought in $12 million. So, that’s value, right? That has undeniable worth.

And yet, she was being compensated below going market averages, and she wasn’t even making six figures. And so, we came up with a negotiation strategy, and it centered around her unique value proposition, which is, “Hey, I want to be compensated according to the value I contribute to this employer, and I’m contributing and I’m exceeding the targets and yet my compensation is not even 1% of the value, the $12 million  that I brought in. So, could we have a conversation about bringing me up to market, so that I’m being compensated for the value I bring?”

You might be listening to this and you think well, I don’t work in sales, I don’t work in a capacity where it’s tied to revenue or figures like that. I don’t know how to articulate my value.

So, think about not just what you do, but how does your employer benefit from what you do? I talked about this in the second episode, Salary Negotiation FAQs.

It’s not just because you do your job that they hire you, they hire you for the end benefit. Because you do your job, there is more security. Because you do your job, there is consistency. Because you do your job, there is smooth operation, happy customers, returning customers, etc.

So, if you’re not sure how to articulate your value, the worth of your contributions, strengths and talents, think about all the things that you do contribute.

In fact, I would strongly suggest you list them. Make a list on paper or in a Google Doc. What have you done? What have you accomplished?

And ask, so what? Because you did this, they benefited by X, Y, Z. Think about, I generated the reports, so they have visibility into operations, and because they have visibility into operations, they can make decisions faster, and because they are making decisions faster, we are more profitable.  

Number two: What do you stand for?

So in other words, I’m asking about your values, not just what is your value. What are your values? What do you stand for? Most of my coaching clients, they stand for serving others.

I had a client who worked in the government contractor industry, and for this person, it was the value of serving the needs of others that really shone through, that was really important for him.

He was doing his job, not just so that he can say he did a great job, he did his job so that other people’s lives improved. And so he articulated that in his unique value proposition. "I’m here to serve others. I’m here to serve the mission and goal of this organization, because the goal and mission of this organization is to improve the lives of those we serve." That’s kind of a circular statement, but you understand what I’m saying. 

Finally: What is your potential?

What can you accomplish? I think this is so important for women negotiators, because we tend to be rewarded for the work we have done, not necessarily for the potential that we bring. Not everyone sees our leadership potential unless we have already done all the work and exceeded targets.

So, it behooves us to articulate what that potential is. What can you do? What can you contribute? We think about potential, and we think about all the great things we can be doing, and sometimes instead of having this become an inspiration or a motivator, it can become a de-motivator for some people.

It can be like, oh, I’m not living up to my potential. But here’s the definition of potential: potential is doing what you can. What can you do? I think that potential is probably tied to your sense of purpose. Why are you here? What are you serving? What are the values you’re honoring? So it’s really closely tied to your values. 

For me, when I do this exercise, I see that my potential is to help unlock other people’s potential so that they can thrive. And when I see that because of the work I do, women are closing their gender wage gaps, people are asking for what they want, people are making decisions that are self-empowered and give them a sense of greater joy, fulfillment and happiness, I see that I am doing my job. I see that I am living up to my potential.

And that’s why this podcast is called Born to Thrive, because I believe that we are all born to lead, influence and thrive, and learning negotiation skills can help us achieve that purpose. 

I’ve written a script that outlines the process that Karina went through, what her negotiation conversation was like so that you can see for yourself what it is like to articulate for your value, and to respond to pushback, to excuses like oh, we don’t have the money in the budget or whatever, if you are negotiating for bigger pay, promotion etc.

And I would like to share this script with you. If you email me at jamie@jamieleecoach.com - and I spell my name J-A-M-I-E - jamieleecoach.com, I will send the script to you because I believe it is my purpose to help other people live up to their potential, and if it helps you, if it contributes value to your negotiation to see how this one successful negotiation went, then that’s great!

I love that. I’d love to help you close your wage gap. I’d love to help you live up to your potential. So, feel free to write me at jamie@jamieleecoach.com to get this free script on how to ask for a big pay raise. Thank you, and I hope that this helps you thrive. Bye!

What are the 5 Key Practices for Negotiation Success?

Negotiation skills are leadership skills.

Conscious leadership and value-creating negotiation both require self-awareness, learning agility, communication and influence.

I share my definition of negotiation and five key practices for negotiation success.

Enjoy!

---

---

Full Episode Transcript:

Hello! Welcome to the eighth episode of Born to Thrive with Jamie Lee. I am your host, Jamie Lee. I work as a negotiation and leadership coach for ambitious women. I believe that we are all born to thrive.

I looked up the definition of the word thrive in the dictionary, and it said it means to grow with vigor. I looked up the word vigor, and vigor means vitality, life force, energy.

The word thrive kind of makes you think of something really happy and joyful, but for some reason I keep confusing the word vigor with rigor. It might be because English is my second language, I don’t know, but I got curious and I looked up rigor, too.

Rigor is harshness. Something difficult. Constraints. It kind of makes sense to me that to thrive requires both vigor and rigor. Yes, you need life force. Yes, you need energy. But you also need to overcome something difficult. You need rigor in order to truly thrive. 

I say that because negotiation is difficult for a lot of people. We’d rather not do it. We’d rather avoid it. We’d rather resist it. Or we’d rather approach it with this attitude of defensiveness, anger, righteousness. We put up a fight.

I don’t think this is really constructive. I also don’t think that negotiation is a fight. Negotiation is not about manipulation, confrontation. It’s simply a conversation. A conversation where everyone has the right to say no. A conversation where we try to come to an agreement. That is it. That is my definition of negotiation. That means we negotiate all the time, for little things, big things.

Who’s gonna do the dishes? What are we gonna do for dinner? How are we going to resolve peace, how are we going to come to peace in the Korean peninsula? These are all negotiations, and we have been engaging in these conversations ever since we were able to say the word “No,” ever since we were able to express our desire for autonomy, for self-expression, when we were either one and a half or two years old or for some people three years old.

So, whatever your age is, subtract two from it and that’s how long you have been practicing, that’s how long you have been negotiating for what you want. 

I believe that negotiation is a leadership skill, and so every time I teach negotiation, I start with, “What kind of leader do you want to be?” Next Monday, I have the great privilege of leading a hands-on, interactive negotiation workshop for Smith alums in Philadelphia, and for that workshop, I prepared a one-sheet with five key practices for negotiation success, and I thought, “You know, why not share it with my podcast audience?”

So, a quick preamble here. There’s a wonderful book called The Fifteen Commitments of Conscious Leadership, and it says there are four core competencies of conscious leadership, and I find that these four core competencies are also the core competencies of value-creating, problem-solving negotiation. I learned this from Lisa Gates at She Negotiates, my business mentor, and I think it’s phenomenal, because it really teaches you what you need to bring in order to have problem-solving, value-creating, negotiation conversations. 

So the four competencies are: 

Number one: Self-awareness. Are you aware of your skills, your strengths, your qualities, your tendencies, your conflict style, your communication style? The more you know, the better you will handle, the better you will manage yourself in and throughout the negotiation process.

Number two: Learning agility. The goal of negotiation is to 1) gather information, and 2) influence the behavior of others. So, throughout the conversation, you want to be learning and learning in different ways. So, improving your learning agility will really help you negotiate with success.

Number three: Communication. Negotiation is simply a communication discipline. It’s a communication with a goal, right? So, how do you communicate? You listen. You express yourself. You reflect on what you’ve heard and you try to express your desires so that it is receptive to the listener. Much earlier in this podcast series, I think it was Episode 3, when I talked about the traps of perfectionism, I talked about how there are four elements within communication: What you want to say, how you say it, what people hear, and what they make it mean. So, that’s communication.

Number four: Influence. You want to influence the other’s behavior in a negotiation, right? You want them to say yes* (In the podcast, I say "no," but I mean "yes." Mea Culpa.) or you want them to change their minds if they’re saying no. The thing about influence is it’s not about telling people what to do and in negotiation it’s not always a debate where you want to prove yourself right and prove the other person wrong. Real influence doesn’t work like that, because real influence is when you have an indirect impact on the other person’s perception, decision making process, and in which they feel that they have come to the decision on their own. So, it’s not about telling people what to do. That’s not negotiation, that’s making demands. It’s not about proving the other side wrong. That’s debate, right? It’s really about influencing. In order to influence, you really need to be able to put yourself in the shoes of the other, see their perspective, and of course that requires empathy.

So, I will wrap this up with, as I mentioned earlier, the five key practices of negotiation success, and what I would like to do in the subsequent episodes is go a little bit deeper into each of the key practices. 

So, number one: the first key practice of negotiation success is to articulate your value so that they see the value of you as a benefit to them. 

Number two: build your alliance. Lisa Gates calls it building your influence posse. I love that. Reaching out to your network. Identifying who are champions who can advocate for you, allies who will go to bat for you, and influencers who will create inroads with the key decision-maker in this negotiation. 

Number three: dig and listen deeply. I know there are a lot of combative negotiators who feel like the point of negotiation is simply to get more than the other side, and it’s all about me, just let me make my point, and I am right. No. Real negotiation happens when you listen and dig deeper into the hidden interests of the other side. 

Number four: anchor first and anchor high. Really good, masterful negotiators understand the magic of telling people what you want and dropping that anchor. It’s a cognitive bias that can work towards your favor.

Number five: get genuine buy-in. That’s what I was talking about earlier when I explained influence. It’s not about telling people what to do, that’s making demands. It’s not about proving other people wrong, that’s debating. Negotiation and true influence is when the other side come to see your point of view, and the other side come to decide for themselves to go along with your proposal. So that’s real, genuine buy-in. It’s how you really get through to people and connect.

I’m really excited about going deeper into these key practices with you in the subsequent episodes, and I hope that you have a wonderful day where you thrive. Talk to you soon!
 

Where I'm From, What I do, and What It Means For You

If you're reading this, you might be wondering, who is this Jamie Lee? Where does she come from? What's her story?

If so, then you've come to the right place. 

In this episode, I get personal and tell you where I'm from (South Korea), how I made the decision to become a coach for women, and what it means for you. 

Then I wrap it up with some baller ladybrags. Enjoy! 

---

---

Full episode transcript: 

Hello! Welcome to the seventh episode of Born to Thrive with Jamie Lee. I am your host, Jamie. I work as a coach, speaker, trainer. I believe that we are all born to thrive. No matter where you were born, what color, what creed, what sexual orientation, what gender orientation, we are all born to thrive.

I work primarily with women, and yesterday I did a post about the fear of seeming like bragging too much that a lot of women clients tell me they have, and I shared the Bullish Society culture of bragging. Bullish Society tweeted back at me, and they were kind to let me know that the official name for this is called “baller ladybrags.” I love that. Baller ladybrag. What is your baller ladybrag today? I will share mine at the end of the podcast episode.

Today I want to talk to you about me. I want to tell you a little bit about me. Why do I do this? Where do I come from? And what does it mean for you?

I was born in South Korea. I’m 36, so I was born in South Korea 36 years ago, and my mother had three daughters. This had the unfortunate consequence of causing suffering, because Korea is very much a patrilineal society. It’s a fancy word for meaning they prioritize sons over girls, because sons get to inherit the wealth of the family, the family line, the family name. Girls don’t. Girls get married off. 

My mother suffered. She literally suffered. She was beat up a few times by my father’s family. She was not treated well. When I was eight, we immigrated to America, and then my mother basically raised the three of us by herself after she divorced my father in America. 

She ran a nail salon, and she managed to put a roof over our heads, she managed to put all three of us through college. She speaks English a little bit worse than Margaret Cho’s mother. I’m not really good at accents, but if you’re familiar with Margaret Cho, it’s a thick accent. But she did it. All by herself. 

When I was growing up, my mother always complained about money. If you grew up in a single-parent home where money was kind of tight, you probably know what I’m talking about. It’s rough, and you make do with what you have. And children absorb all of this. I absorbed all of this. My response to this was, “Well, you know what? I don’t like money. You’re always complaining about money. You don’t care about me. You’re not here for me. It’s just money, money, money, money, money. I don’t want money!” I remember saying that out loud to my mother. It hurt her so, so much. 

And now I work as a negotiation coach helping women become bolder, braver and better paid. Because this experience taught me a really valuable lesson: that women are capable of doing great things. We support families, we support networks, we support communities. In fact, the Clinton Global Institute does global-wide research, and they found that when women make money, they invest 90% of their income back into their families and communities, whereas men only invest 45%. So my mother was a classic example of that.

And then I went to Smith College, where it’s all women, and I again saw that women are so capable. Women are able to do all the things that we want to do if we put our minds to it, if we come together and support each other. That was the big lesson that I learned. I remember carrying furniture up four flights of stairs with four other Smith women. We didn’t need men to help us move furniture or do hard things. Smith College is one of the very first, I think it is the only women’s college to have a women’s only engineering department. So, yeah, it had a really big impact on me, and it really instilled the feminist ideals inside of me, you could say that. 

Then I got into the real world after college, and then I was hit with the reality of what it is to work for a patriarchal society that is still here in America. So, my very first job, I worked as a receptionist at a government organization.

It was an international government organization that was going to build a nuclear power plant in North* Korea (*In the podcast, I made the mistake of saying "South Korea." My bad). For reals. For peace, not for war. This was something that was agreed upon during President Clinton’s administration. It’s called KEDO. It’s now defunct, no surprise there, right?

In any case, I went there, and I was so full of hope and ideals, as I still am, but all the diplomats were men. All the support staff were women. One of the things that the Korean diplomats asked me to do - he saw this Korean girl - and he’s like, “Oh, you’re gonna come support me, and every day I want you to bring me a cup of coffee diluted with hot water.”

And I remember walking, going from the kitchen to the South Korean diplomat’s office with this coffee in my hand and hating it. Really hating it, I mean. That was an interesting experience. Again I saw, wait, all the power, all the decision-making powers are with men here. And that didn’t really sit well with me.

And then the next job I worked for a South Korean company, because I speak Korean, and I had some experience with this organization that was going to build a power plant in North Korea. This is a really big South Korean conglomerate called Doosan, and they build power plants, desalination plants, that are big infrastructure that turn saltwater into drinkable water.

Again, all the managers, men. Flown in from South Korea. And the South Korean flavor of patriarchy is like this: if he’s the older male, it means that he knows best. He just does. And he just deserves all your respect. You obey. You submit. I hate using that word, but it’s true. I lasted about ten months there.

It was not a good fit for me, as you can imagine, and it really hit home for me that I had to leave when one day I was working late, filing all these papers. I was working as a buyer, negotiating with American vendors on behalf of the Korean company. And then one day, out of the blue, I get a call. It’s 5pm. I get a call from a South Korean manager, and he just rings up my phone and then he says “What the hell are you doing?! You’re doing a terrible job!” And then, click. He hangs up.

To this day, I don’t know who this man was, I just know that he was from South Korea, so he was probably a manager. And I don’t know what needed improvement. There was no dialogue, there was no discussion. It was just like, “You’re bad.” Click. And that kind of really drove home for me that this was not a good culture fit for me.

I had another job where I worked for a women-founded American company, and I realized, “Wow! The culture is so much better. I really like this! It’s a great fit.” But I kind of stalled in learning and growing, so I worked at a hedge fund.

Again, this hedge fund was founded by a Korean guy. I think the common theme here is, for me, don’t work for companies founded by Korean patriarchs. But in any case, again, I encountered kind of a toxic experience where all the men made the decisions. I was the only woman at the trading desk.

What is the definition of toxic? I gave a talk on this at The Wing the other week.  It’s self-poisoning. And I started to feel the poisoning emotionally, mentally, physically, going there and listening to these guys talk and joke and not having a voice, not being respected. I had to go. I just had to go. 

One day I read this article in The New York Times about this group of women investors who invest only in women-founded companies. They saw the problem: women-founded startups don’t get VC funding, even to this day. It was only about like 6% of women-founded companies, in the latest article I saw, only 6% get VC funding.

There’s a great need for funding for these women-founded companies, and this company, this little company called Golden Seeds, decided to provide the solution. They were a group of women accredited investors, and they decided to pull together and do due diligence and do angel investing only in women-founded startups.

When I read about them I thought, “Wow. This is the group that I want to be aligned with. This is the kind of people I want to be associated with. This is who I want to become. Because I know the pain of being the woman, the only woman, in a male-dominated workplace. I know the pain of being a girl in patriarchy. I know the pain of being overlooked, ignored, discriminated against. And I want to be part of the solution. I don’t want to sit and be a victim anymore.”

So I wrote to them. They didn’t have the wherewithal to pay me a salary, but I did an unpaid internship, and it changed my life. It gave me connections to other women investors who later gave me job opportunities, and the job opportunities led to me working for startups, and then when I started working at startups that’s when I started thinking, “Hey! You know, I have some entrepreneurial ideas. I can teach. I can speak. I love to give back to the community.” And then when I thought about what is the thing that I can give back, it’s what I’m doing now. It’s helping women find their voice. It’s helping women shine. It’s helping women thrive on their own terms. And it’s helping women advocate for the value they bring.

What does this mean for you? The lesson that I am trying to live through my work is to walk the talk I give. I talk about confidence. I talk about advocacy. I talk about believing in ourselves. I talk about being proactive. I talk about leading by example. I talk about speaking and acting from a sense of purpose.

And I try to live this every day. It’s important because we need change, right? We need to press for progress. Time is up. Those are all the trendy hashtags lately around this topic of women and gender equality. We need to close the gender wage gap.

But it starts with you. That’s when I realized that it starts with me, and I needed to take action and live what I wanted to see in the world that things started to change, things started to turn around for me. For you, that means it starts with you. It’s not enough for us to wait around, be angry. It’s time for us to live the change, to walk the talk that we give.

This is kind of a long episode and I should wrap this up with a baller ladybrag. I love that. Baller. Ladybrag. It’s confusing. Baller? Isn’t that masculine? Ladybrag? Does that even make sense? I don’t care. We’re doing it. Baller ladybrag.

I have three! Number one: A recent client of mine, I helped her negotiate her salary. She just got promoted to director level, but her salary, they were like “Oh, our budget is small, blah blah blah.” They were giving her these passive-aggressive excuses. So, we worked on a custom strategy/action-plan/script. Her result: 44% increase in salary. 44%. That’s nearly double what she was making.

And on top of that, she got equity, and she found out that not all directors get equity. So she got an even more fluffier icing on the cake, if you will. I just made that up.

Number two: I wrote a script based on this experience to share with more people. I thought there was just so much value I couldn’t keep it to myself. It’s called “How to Ask For A Big Pay Raise.” And I shared it with my network. Somebody used it to negotiate a pay raise, and her result? She got a 9% increase in salary. That’s pretty baller. 9%. It’s like double of the cost of living adjustment which is about, or less than 5%. So that’s pretty baller. I love it.

Number three: I told you I gave a speaker’s workshop at the UN, and I just got feedback that the women that I coached over the weekend got to give their speeches at the UN, and their speeches were better. You could see the impact of our work together. So this makes me really proud, this really makes me feel good, and this gives me more drive to continue to grow, to continue to thrive.

So, I wish you well today, and I wish you a thriving day. See you tomorrow!
 

Overcoming the Fear: She Brags Too Much

“But I don’t want them to think I’m bragging.” I hear this a LOT as a negotiation coach for women.

In this episode, I share concrete tips for overcoming the fear of judgment that holds us back from speaking up, advocating for our value and confidently negotiating for what we want.

---

---

Transcript:

Here's a question I often ask my clients who are challenged with advocating for their value, with negotiating at work, and with stepping up and speaking out for what they want. 

That question is, "What will you do if you weren't afraid of what other people think?" 

This is in response to the fear that says, "They will think I'm bragging, that I'm being too aggressive by promoting myself." 

This, my friends, is a battle of identity. 

Identity is a vulnerable thing. It changes constantly, who you are, how you see yourself, how you frame your identity, how you express that identity. It changes every day, sometimes by moment. And I think that's a beautiful thing. 

It's a battle of identity because if you are giving into that fear, "What will people think?" you're listening to the Itty Bitty Shouldy Committee (discussed in episode three). It's the voice that tells you to stay quiet, stay small, and stay safe.

It says, "Don't take that risk."

It asks, "Who do you think you are?" 

It warns, "People will judge you. Don't take that risk. Don't grow. Don't thrive." 

We sometimes mistake this voice as our identity. We think this is us. The danger here is that we become victims of our story. 

I remember vividly how when I worked as a manager, I would always blame other people. My life was miserable because of my manager. My life was miserable because things were unjust. 

The questions in my head were, "When will they fix this? When will things get better? When will the other shoe drop? Why does this always happen to me?" All questions of victimhood. 

The trap is in mistaking our identity with the story whispered in our heads by the Itty Bitty Shouldy Committee, and this happens subconsciously. It gets comfortable thinking like this. It gets comfortable and familiar being in the place of victimhood, anger, shame and blame. 

It's kind of like having an old pair of jeans that you absolutely love but you've been wearing them for years and years. They're long past their expiration date, but you keep wearing them because you're a creature of habit and they're so comfortable. 

To step into a new pair of jeans, to go out there and to buy a new pair of jeans is...oh my gosh, so much hassle, right? 

It's kind of like stepping into a new identity. I'm speaking as someone who has a tendency to wear jeans long past their expiration date, so for me, stepping into a new pair of jeans can feel like..."Ugh, do I have to?"

Reluctance. 

I hear that reluctance in the voices of my clients who think, "Oh, I can't advocate for myself. I can't brag. It's not nice. It's not ladylike." 

Why not you?

Why not you in those fancy, trendy, stylish pair of jeans that's going to make you look good AND feel good about yourself? 

Yes, it's a risk to promote yourself.

Yes, it's a hassle to step out into the world in a new identity.

The new identity as someone who is bold, who is brave, who does step up, who does speak out, who cares a little less about what other people think, who cares a little more about making her dream a reality, about making her future self happy, and about investing in the growth of her career. 

It's not unlike stepping into a new pair of jeans and feeling a little vulnerable, wondering, "What will people think?" 

So to combat this, I have three concrete tips for you. 

1. Try self-promotion with a small group of supportive friends.

In the lady network called Get Bullish (Bullish women are ambitious feminists) founded by Jen Dziura, she promotes the culture of bragging.

She's encouraging women to grow our bragging muscles, so we can own our success and not be ashamed sharing with the world what we have accomplished. We should be proud, and we should be telling people, so that people do know our value and pay us accordingly. 

Find your own network if you're not part of the Bullish Network. And give each other permission to brag shamelessly. 

It's like showing off your new jeans to a small group of friends before stepping out for a big party. 

2. Let people know that you're trying this out. 

To be more specific, you can say, "I'm trying this new thing, where I'm more forthcoming about my accomplishments. What I have accomplished are...X, Y and Z." 

In other words, open with vulnerability. 

3. Be compassionate with yourself. 

The old jeans or the old identity served you well so far, but it's time to step into the new you. 

Don't be afraid of letting go of old, comfortable habits. Be brave and speak up. It's a bit like stepping into new jeans, because it's about exploring a new you. You are always growing into a new you, a version of you that thrives. 

How to Listen with Respect So You Can Get Respect

Listening - true, heart-to-heart listening - is so rare these days.

That's why when you master the three levels of listening, you'll become influential, respected and magnetic to the people you engage with. 

---

---

Transcript:

The three levels of listening is a transformational concept that really changed everything for me, as a coach, trainer and as a person who relates to other people. I learned this concept from Co-Active Coach Training, and you can read about it in their book Co-Active Coaching. 

If you want to become an influential leader and if you want to create durable agreements as the outcome of your negotiations, you need to listen. 

Listening - true, heart-to-heart listening - is so rare these days. Therefore it is highly valued. People will respect you. People will be drawn to you. People will come to agree with you if you listen well. 

Level 1 - Me Me Me

You're probably very familiar with this level. We all are. Basically, it's when you listen while thinking, "How does this relate to ME?" "What smart thing can I say to impress the other person?" "How can I interrupt?" "How can I make MY point?"

"How can I talk about ME, ME, ME?" 

It's when people are kinda listening - but not really - and really they're just waiting for their turn to speak. 

I'd say about 95% of the time we're listening at level 1. I think it's because we all want to be heard so badly. The need to be heard keeps us at the most basic level of listening, at level 1. 

The thing is, listening is like respect. You don't get listened to by forcing your point on other people. You get listened to when you listen to other people. Like how you get respect by giving respect. 

Level 2 - Curious and Listening into the Heart of the Other 

It's when you're not just listening to the words, but you're also curious about the emotion behind the words. You're curious about what's not being said. You're curious about the connection between what IS being said and HOW it is being said. 

So you're not just listening with your ears. You're taking in the speaker with your senses, with your eyes.

I once read that 90% of the information that the brain processes is visual. 

That's why when you communicate, you want to communicate in such a way that your facial expression and body language are dovetailing what you're saying. 

Often we feel one way but say another. If someone asks me, "Will you go to the movies with me?" and I respond with reluctance in my voice, you can probably tell that I don't actually want to go to the movies. 

So how do you engage the other side when you're listening at level two? It's really good to clarify and confirm what you're hearing and seeing. Is there a connection? Or is there a disconnect? What is the underlying emotion? 

Start with sentences that start with "It seems that..." "I hear that..." or "It sounds like..." And then you invite the speaker to clarify or confirm by asking, "Where am I wrong?" 

To go back to the movies scenario, if someone asks me, "Will you go to the movies with me?" and I respond, "Sure...," and if they were actually curious and listening at level two, they may respond by saying, "Hmm... It sounds like from the tone of your voice that you're not all that excited about the idea of going to the movies. Where am I wrong?" 

To which, I might say, "You know, you're not wrong. I'm not all that excited about going to the movies, I'd much rather stay home and read my magazine." Now we have understanding.  

Listening at level two and asking, "Where am I wrong?" is a powerful strategy that I recommend for both conflict resolution and negotiation.

Listening at level two is powerful, because it will help you gather information, understand the other side, and create a bond. When there is a bond and the other side feels they've actually been heard, transformations can happen. 

Level 3 - Global Listening, Reading the Room 

Influential people are adept at level three listening. Stand-up comedians, public speakers, CEOs - people who are in tune with what is going on in the room - listen at level three. They ask, "What is here right now, in this room?"

In the Co-Active Coaching book, the authors described level three listening as "listening to the radio waves."

That's a really cool metaphor. But how do you listen to the radio waves? I mean, they're silent. 

I think what the authors are referring to is the ability to intuit what's going on. You feel the radio waves with your intuition. 

How do you communicate this? How do you know that you're listening at level three? 

It's not very hard, actually. 

Let me give you a vivid example. 

I've been watching "Queer Eye" on Netflix, and I notice that every episode starts with the Fab Five - the five gay guys who are going to transform and make over a straight guy - going into the straight guy's house. They have this rambunctious, high-energy interaction where they are going through the straight guy's closet, trying on his clothes, making funny comments, and being goofy. 

So what's going on in that room? What is the level of energy in that room? 

I'd say it's high energy. It's playful, funny, a little uncomfortable, and awkward for the straight guy. There's a bit of tension but it's also really fun to watch. 

If you were in that room, how would you feel the energy and how would you articulate it? 

Then at the end of the episode, the Fab Five do what coaches would call acknowledgement. They sit down with the straight guy. They say, "Okay, so this is the last conversation. We want you to know that you're beautiful inside. You are powerful. You can do this. You are capable of change." 

Often what happens is that there is open vulnerability. There is real love in that room. I get the chills just thinking about it. Every time I watch that segment in the show, it brings me to tears. 

What's going on in that room? There is love. There is this melting of the hearts. You can see it. You can feel it. You know it. 

Today, I challenge you to check in with yourself when you're engaged in conversation or when you are in a room full of people. Are you engaged in level one or level two?

Then tap into your level three and into your intuition. Ask yourself, "What's going on in this room? Is there high energy? Is it low? Is it anxious? What's going on?" 

You will realize that you are capable of listening at a higher level, and when you tap into that you'll become a more influential person. People will feel that they've been heard and that they've been respected. And when people feel that they've been respected, they will respect you.

How to Speak to Impact Social Change

This is a recap of the advocacy workshop I led for Global Network of Women Peace-builders to an audience of feminist activists who gathered for the 62nd Commission on the Status of Women at U.N.

The lessons are

1. Connect with your Why; Connect with your Fire

2. Don’t Force; Guide the Listener to a New Understanding

3. Tell Compelling Stories; Share Your Story. 

---

---

Transcript:

Yesterday I had the awesome privilege of leading an advocacy workshop with Global Network of Women Peacebuilders for feminist activists who have gathered from around the world to attend the 62nd Commission on the Status of Women at the UN. 

Wow. It was a great privilege for me, and today I am thriving because I have three reasons.

1. I get to share some of the amazing stories that I have heard with you. I get to tell stories.
2. I have a roof over my head right now. I’m drinking a delicious cup of ginger lemon tea, and no one is shooting bullets at me. I’m really privileged to have a peaceful existence, and I am grateful for that. I am thriving.
3. I get to do something that I really love. I love coaching, I love speaking, and I love training, and I got to do all of it yesterday. So, I feel really grateful, deeply privileged, and so I want to share some of the lessons with you, because you know what? I wish you could have been there. It was so fun.

I'll share top three lessons that I shared with the Global Network of Women Peacebuilders, feminist activists, who want to impact change. Let me guess - 

You also want to communicate, advocate, negotiate so that you can impact change for the better in your life, in your career, in your world. 

What are the top three lessons? 

1. Connect with your why or connect with your fire. 

2. Don’t force, but guide, and make it easy to follow. 

3. Tell compelling stories and share you with the world.

First, Connect with your why.

To give you an idea of what my workshops are like, I will tell you how it started. I introduced myself, and then I asked the crowd, “Why are you here?”

There was this kind of an awkward pause. The activists looked at each other. They’re like, “Uh, to promote gender equality. Duh!”

And I said, “Why is gender equality important?” 

Another person in the audience said, “It’s important because everyone deserves a right to a peaceful existence.”

So I said, “Ah, that’s a pretty compelling reason!”

And she added,

“It’s not just about gender. It’s not just about women. It’s about the potential of our future generation. It’s about the potential of women and men, so that they can live full, rich lives not constricted by gender roles, expectations.”

Wow. Yeah. That’s a good reason. That’s a great why. 

I asked the audience to really vividly picture the impact that their speaking will have on the audience.

I asked them, "What is the transformation that you want to create with your speaking, with your communication?"

When we got down to it, this metaphor bubbled up. It’s like lighting a candle. One of the activists from Moldova, she said that somebody who had listened to her speak on the topic of gender equality told her it was as if a candle was lit within her after hearing the speaker. And that’s exactly it, isn’t it? 

Yesterday, I briefly talked about the four elements of communication, so to quickly recap, it’s number one: what you mean, or your purpose, your sense of desire to change the world, right? You see it in your mind’s eye really clearly, what is possible. And you want to communicate it, because you have passion for this possible change. Number two: how you say it, how you express that fire. Number three: people hear it. Number four: how they interpret what they heard and what they make it mean. 

And so when she said that this person had told her it was if a candle had been lit, she had succeeded in the transference of the fire. She helped this person feel and connect with the fire within her.

That fire, that passion for change is the purpose. That's the leadership purpose of these women who want to speak up, who want to advocate on behalf of women whose voices are not being heard at the negotiating table, or in the halls of power where these big international policies are being written. 

So, what is your fire?

What is the vision you have in your mind’s eye of what is possible? I really want you to connect with that.

If you have trouble articulating it, just ask yourself why? Why is this important? Why do you feel compelled to share this? And keep asking why until you get to a reason that is super compelling.

Everyone wants peaceful existence. Everyone deserves a right to live their full potential. And I thought that was a really compelling reason. And that is what drives these women peacebuilders to go out there and face criticism, even face violence and opposition, in some parts of the world to continue to speak up so that they can impact change.

So, number one: connect with your why. Connect with your fire.

Quick anecdote: for me, when I connect with my fire, when I feel like yes, this is my purpose and I am speaking my truth, I have the chills. So there are tells when you’re super clear on your why, when you’re connecting with that fire, you will know. And only you will know. So, whatever your tell is, trust it.

Second, don’t force, guide. Make it easy to follow.

What do I mean by this?

Yesterday, when I had the audience envision the impact they’re making with their speaking, one of the activists said she wants to force people to see the truth of the atrocities that are being committed against women around the world, especially women in conflict areas.

Did you know that there was armed conflict in Armenia? I had no idea. Did you know that there’s still a war in Ukraine? I’m sorry, I didn’t know, but I learned yesterday.

So she wants people to see it, accept it, and take accountability. I understand her passion and her outrage is justified, however it’s not very effective communication because people are not going to do what you tell them to do.

People are not going to change their minds, they’re not going to change their hearts because you are right, because you know so much, because you are so impressive.

People are going to change their minds, change their hearts and take action because they have decided for themselves that this is the right thing to do, and this is the right time to act on it.

The job of effective communication isn’t to force people to take a point of view, it’s to guide them, and it’s to aid in their changing of their minds. 

How do you do this? Really simple. Tell compelling stories. Ask questions, it gets their minds engaged. Make eye contact. Literally connect with the audience.

Make your speech, or your communication, really easy to follow. Tell them what you’re going to tell them, organize it into three digestible chunks, tell them the three things and count it off: one, two three. Summarize what you said, and then finally make a compelling call to action.

These women from around the world, they had really impressive recommendations on how to impact social change at the local level, national level, international level. How do we get journalists involved? How do we make the promise of the U.N., which is to promote gender equality, how do we make that promise a reality?

They had some really concrete but also very technical recommendations, so I challenged each and every one of them to just organize it into top three points that they want to make. Tell people, “I have an idea and these are three reasons why this idea is valid, and here is my recommendation.”

Third, Tell Compelling Stories

Once you have grabbed their attention and have guided, not forced, a point of view on them, the most effective and powerful way to have people empathize and see your point of view is to tell compelling stories.

In a story, there are three basic components. There is a character, there is conflict, there is resolution or lessons learned. Yesterday I heard some really mind-blowing stories. 

Take for example:

Imagine that you are a 16 year-old girl born in a rural area in Congo. Imagine that at 16, you’re sold off to be married to a strange man. And imagine that you have three kids. And imagine that every day, with a baby strapped to your back, you have to go out into the field and do farm work, and your husband does not help with that farm work. Your husband does not help with any household work. He doesn’t feel that he needs to, he feels justified, because he paid money to marry you. You don’t have a right to own land. You don’t have a right to inheritance, so when your husband passes away, you have nothing.

How would you feel?  

This was one of the many stories I heard yesterday.

Did you see this woman in your mind’s eye? Did you feel the hot sun on your back as you’re working in the field?

Did you feel something inside? I hope you did. I don’t want you to feel bad. I’m just trying to convey to you the power of storytelling. And this is what I shared with the crowd yesterday. 

Another thing I shared with them is, don’t be afraid to share stories about you.

These are really smart, really accomplished women, humanitarian workers and lawyers. At the U.N., they feel like they have to be perfect, that they have to impress people with their knowledge, with their professionalism and their activism.

When you are communicating a message, you are the conduit.

So people can’t help but be curious about you. And when you tell us a little bit about you, when you brave vulnerability and open up about your life and what these stories mean to you and how they impact you emotionally, people will feel compelled. Vulnerability is a strength. People will react to your courage to open up. 

For example, yesterday, one of the women is a domestic violence activist, and she said the topic of advocating for rural women in her country is important to her because her grandmother is from a rural area. So she feels connected. When she told me she feels connected with her grandmother while looking at me in the eye, I felt connected to her and to her story, and it was very powerful. It was very compelling.

So these are top three lessons that I shared.

Of course there are several other tips and tricks: don’t make wordy Powerpoint slides and then read from the Powerpoint instead of speaking to your audience. Make eye contact. Don't use filler words.

These are all very good, very fundamental public speaking tips, but at the heart of speaking to impact change, I think it’s important to connect with your why, connect with the fire within you. To not force-feed ideas into people to change their minds, because they won’t, but instead to guide them and make it easy for them to follow you so that they feel like they have arrived at that destination or a new point of view on their own. And finally, the best way to do that is to tell compelling, vivid stories. Don’t be afraid to open up and be vulnerable about what that is like for you.

These lessons can be applied to people who want to impact social change, people who want to advocate for themselves, people who just want to be more compelling leaders and tell better stories.

Traps of Perfectionism & Itty Bitty Shouldy Committee

In this episode we explore the trap of perfectionism and the voice of Itty Bitty Should-y Committee. 

You know this voice. It's the voice inside our heads that tell us to stay small, safe, and to not take that audacious risk. 

Then we break down communication into four parts, so that we can focus our energy and attention on the parts we can control and not worry over things not in our control.

---

---

Transcript:

Today I want to talk to you about something I was struggling with just this morning: perfectionism. 

I tried to record this podcast episode about eight times. I’d start, and then I’d fumble a word or I would say something a little awkwardly, and then I would stop. Delete. Re-record. And then I’d try again. And then I’d lose my train of thought. And then I’d say something and I’m like, “Ugh, this is terrible, no one’s gonna listen to this.”  Stop. Delete. Re-record. It went on and on and on. I was struggling with my own perfectionism. 

And a lot of people do.

Especially the kinds of people that I work with who are people who want to be thought leaders, people who want to impact change in the world, people who want to leave a better world for the next generation.

Because we are so ambitious, sometimes we are held back by our desire to please, to be perfect, and to perform. 

Behind that desire is this fear that if you don’t impress the people who are watching you please, perform and perfect, that you won’t be accepted. That somehow, you won’t belong and that you won’t be worthy.

You hear that fear through the voice of the Itty Bitty Shouldy Committee. 

I call it the Itty Bitty Shouldy Committee because it tells you to stay itty bitty, and it tells you all the shoulds. You should be perfect. You should over-perform. You should take care of other people’s feelings. You should stay quiet if you don’t have the perfect answer. You should impress all the people.

If you listen to this voice, it holds you back. The reality is we all have a version of this voice. You might call it something else. You might give it a name like Hilda. You might call it The Saboteur. It’s the voice that tells you to stay safe, small, don’t take that risk. Don’t do that scary thing that can actually help you grow, that can actually help you thrive. 

You know what I’m talking about, right?

We’ve all heard it. “Who do you think you are? You’re gonna fail.”

It’s the voice that’s inside of us that is the most difficult, the most challenging to quiet down.

So how do we deal with this? I think it’s really helpful to recognize that when you communicate your brave ideas, or when you engage in that difficult conversation or negotiation, four different things are happening. And some of them you can control, and some of them you cannot control. So focus just only on the things you can control.

So, what are the four things?

First: What you mean.

What you desire to say, to express, to put out into the world. It’s inside you. It’s an internal experience. Does it make you feel good, or does it make you feel agitated? Only you can know, and only you can put those feelings or the desire inside you into words.

Second: What you say.

And what you say is an approximation, or a description of that internal experience. So, sometimes it’s not exactly the same as what you see or envision in your mind, but it’s how you best put it into words. So, it helps to say what you mean in very, very simple and clear terms so that you can be easily understood. 

Third: What people hear.

Are people always listening?

I think you know the answer. No. They’re not always listening. Even the people who are closest to us are not always listening.

People are distracted by visual information, people are distracted by their smartphones, by Twitter, etc. And you can’t control that. You simply can’t. And you can’t control the last part of this either.

Fourth: What they make it to mean.

How they interpret what they hear or parts of what they hear.

Take for example, I have this ongoing discussion with my life partner, and he’s taller than me. He’s got a deeper tone of voice, and even though he’s right next to me I sometimes struggle to hear what he says. I often, I frequently struggle to hear everything he says. And we’re always saying, “What did you say? What did you say?”

Even in small everyday conversations, you can see how the need to be heard, the need to be liked, the need to be approved of, or the trap of perfectionism can really put a relationship or communication at risk.

It’s because you can’t control what people hear or they don’t hear, but all you can control is how you express what you want to say. 

So how do we get rid of perfectionism?

I don’t think it’s possible.

It’s not possible to shut down that voice that says you should stay small and quiet and safe, but as long as we just focus our action and our words on what we can control: our thoughts, our behavior, and our words.

It’s because what other people think, what other people hear, what other people perceive is really none of our business. I can say one thing and people can hear a completely different thing and make it mean and start thinking about some completely unrelated thing, and I have no control over that. It’s not my business.

I’d like to end this with a quote by Tony Robbins. I read it this morning actually, as I was struggling with my own perfectionism and wanting to put out a perfect podcast episode.

“If your happiness requires other people to behave the way you want, then what are the chances you’re going to stay happy?”

Very slim, no? 

I’d like to rephrase this, since we’re talking about thriving.

If you’re thriving requires other people to behave, or to listen, or to approve and like you, what are the chances that you’re going to thrive? Very little.

So, put the ball back in your court. As Wayne Gretzky says, “You miss one hundred percent of the shots you don’t take.”

Put yourself out there. Put your best foot forward. Step up. Say what you mean so that you can thrive on your own terms. 

Salary Negotiation FAQs

In the second episode of Born to Thrive, I address three most frequently asked questions that I get as a negotiation coach for women.

1. Who goes first in giving a number (you!)

2. What if my employer questions your loyalty? (They don’t pay for your emotional labor)

3. How do you respond to a lowball offer? (I offer a script for responding to this in this podcast).

Enjoy!

---

---

Transcript:

On International Women's Day, I'd like to answer three most frequently asked questions I get as a negotiation coach for women. Earlier this week I got to speak about workplace culture and negotiation at The Wing, the only co-working space dedicated to women. I notice that I get asked these three questions over and over again. 

First, who goes first? 

I've been teaching and studying negotiation for over five years, and I notice that the person who anchors first, the person who tells the other side what they want first almost always has the negotiation tip towards her favor. 

Anchoring simply means you tell them what you want. Anchoring is a powerful cognitive bias. Once you drop an anchor, the conversation will tip towards your favor -- IF your anchor is reasonably ambitious. For example, asking for $500K when the going rate is $250K is unreasonable. But if you find out that the going rate for your role is $150K, then ask for $150K. 

• Do online research to find the going market rate for your role.
• Ask your network what they're making. National Labor Relations Act protects your right to ask your colleagues about their pay, even if your employer frowns on this. So be tactful. 
• If you're a woman who feels she's underpaid, ask men in similar roles what they're making.
• Several women I've talked to have often found out that their male predecessors made around $10K-$20K more in the same role! 

Second, what if your employer questions your loyalty if you ask for more money? 

Remember that your employer does not pay you for your loyalty. This is especially true if you work under "At Will" contract.

Loyalty is emotional labor. You don't get paid for your emotional labor. You get a salary for the benefit, or the value of your contributions. 

Your contributions may add to the bottom line or to prestige to the company, or help retain paying customers. For example, if you work in customer service, the end benefit of your work may be improved customer satisfaction which leads to improved customer retention. Existing customers are paying customers which means more revenue. 

So don't worry about emotional labor; focus on your value. 

Third, what if you get a lowball offer? 

So what if you got a job offer but didn't want to anchor because you were afraid to make a mistake? What if you're making $65K and got an offer for $58K? How should you respond? 

Here's my suggested script:

"This is a great place to start. I appreciate the offer and I'm looking forward to working towards the mission of your group. The thing is, I'm currently making more than the offer. So if you can increase the offer to $70K, that would help me make this decision sooner rather than later." 

3 Steps to Organizing a Winning Speech

Welcome to the Born to Thrive podcast with me, Jamie Lee - your host, coach, speaker and trainer. I am a negotiation and leadership coach dedicated to helping women become bolder, braver and better paid. 

Because public speaking is a key leadership skill, I present three steps for organizing a winning speech, especially for those who want to speak to advocate for social change.

The common pitfall advocating for change is that we get tempted to tell people what to do. In other words, we go straight into the call to action (Sign this petition! Give to this cause! Go here and do that!), without giving enough thought to what truly motivates people to take action. 

Remember that influence is the skill in having an indirect impact on people's internal motivation without controlling them.

In order to become an influential speaker whom people enjoy listening to, use the following three steps for organizing your message: 

1. Big Idea

Unusual or surprising way to grab the attention of the listener. Share your big idea in the intro and make it captivating. 

2. Premise

Proposition supported by evidence or stories to support your call to action. After each point, provide easy-to-follow summary for emphasis and clarity. As a general rule of thumb, it helps to have three points, because it's easy to follow and remember. 

3. Call to Action 

Drive your points home here. Inspire the audience to see your vision and take action to make it a reality. 

Listen to the full podcast episode here. 

---

---